Imagine what it would feel like to have total confidence in yourself. An amazing feeling, right? Wrong. According to today's guest, The Queen of Confidence herself, Erika Cramer, confidence on the contrary feels like sh*t! Tune in to hear her amazing story and what it means to have confidence.
In this episode you will learn:
- The 5 C's to confidence
- How Erika teaches confidence to her kids
- How to break through self doubt
- What it really means to be confident and the process to achieve it
- And of course Erika's incredible life story
You can listen to the episode above or read the unedited transcript below.
Meaghan Smith 00:21
Hello beautiful people and welcome to another episode of the money mindful Podcast. I am your host Meaghan Jean Smith. I am a money mindset and life coach for women. If you are a first time listener, Hello, and welcome. Also, buckle up because this episode is going to be fiery. This month in Book Club, we are reading confidence feels like shit by Erika Cramer. And boy we are getting next level. Real with ourselves with this one. It is such a cool book. And so I am absolutely thrilled to have Erika on the show today to talk all things confidence. Erika, welcome.
Erika Cramer 01:10
Yay, Hello, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Um,
Meaghan Smith 01:15
the to me too. I have been following you in the background for a while on Instagram, and I love your vibe. But when I saw that your book came out. And just the title alone. I was like, I have to have Erika on the show. We have to do that book for book club. Because what you talk about in the book is so in line with what I do and what I do with my clients. And I was just like, yes, we we have to connect, you have to come and tell us all the things. So for those who don't know you, Erika, can you tell us like a little bit about you and all your awesomeness. I know you talk about your story in the book, but there will be listeners who are thinking, I don't know who Erika is. Let's hear all about it.
Erika Cramer 02:02
Yes, yes, definitely. Okay, buckle up. Here we go. So, so I'm originally from Boston, Massachusetts. I've been in Australia, probably 10 years now. So I grew up in a little town there to a single bipolar mother, she really struggled with bipolar, I'm the only child on her side. And it was really difficult for her because I think that she tried to do the best she could, but she would continuously get sick. And when she was sick, she would get really paranoid and manic if you will make more manic. So there would be lots of physical abuse, lots of verbal abuse, screaming, yelling, police would come and you know, she'd be arrested, I'd be arrested. And then before you know I'm in a foster home, and she's in a mental hospital. And so this happened from two years old till 16 years old, maybe twice a year minimum. And that was just really turbulent. I think for me, because it had me kind of on edge or feeling really abandoned and all of that stuff that came. I went into foster care and lots of sexual abuse happened in foster care. When I was seven years old, my dad ended up kidnapping me because we took a trip and my mom didn't take enough medication and almost killed us in a car accident. And so I was taken from my mom for a year in Puerto Rico. And it's kind of where I learned my Latin background and my Spanish and all of that stuff. And when I came back home, you know, it was the same thing again, foster care, you know, mental hospitals, all of that. So when I turned 15, I decided to join the army because I didn't do well in school. As you can imagine that turbulent upbringing, I was really not focused in school fighting. I was a bully. I was bullied. It was just a hot mess of a childhood. And so I joined the army because they paid for college. And I'm like, yep, I'm gonna go to college for marketing, supposedly. And my mom was like, are you You're seriously going into the army. I'm like, yeah, we're doing this because who's gonna pay for my school? So I went into the army for four years. Now for four years, I went into the army when I was 17. and ended up going to boot camp through 911. My high school sweetheart also joined the Marine Corps, and we both were secretly moving to California. And we ended up living on the other side of the world. We he went to war, he went to Iraq, it was just crazy. Like all this. I was a young kid, but I felt like I was 40 years old already, because I had lived such a big life. And when he came back, one Saturday night, we were drinking and driving because a lot of young people do in America and it's horrible. And we ended up crashing our car going 240 kilometres an hour. I was ejected out of the car, I broke my back and I had to learn how to walk again, had metal put in my whole body. And that really was kind of like a pre wake up call. And it kind of was like, Hey, what are you doing? You don't want to be in the military. You don't want to be doing this. So I started modelling thinking that's what I wanted to do. And the following year, my husband passed away in a car accident drinking and driving on his own. And that was really like holy shit. Okay. Okay universe, God, whoever is up there like, I can't handle anymore. And so what happened was I spent the next five years drinking numbing out and just pretending that that didn't happen, trying to control delete my life and I met Man in Vegas, and he was Australian. And I was like, yep, I'm moving to Australia. Like, I'm just gonna go over there and nothing's gonna follow me. Because clearly no one will know me, I'll get an air quotes fresh start. And when I came here he was really, we'll call him a narcissist. You know, it was what I obviously needed at the time, because I wasn't listening to what was happening. I met another person just like him. And then I finally started going the the common denominator here is me, you know, I'm the common denominator. So what do I need to do? My personal trainer was a really good friend of mine. And he introduced me to coaching and life coaching and spirituality and all of this stuff that I had no idea about. And I ended up marrying my personal trainer. And he's been my husband for seven years now. And I just that really kind of kicked me off on a journey of working on myself. So probably nine years later, we spent $115,000 on coaches and retreats and business coaches and programmes and NLP and all the things. And I decided I really wanted to help women do this. So initially, I became a stylist, a clothing stylist, and I was helping them with the outer confidence. And then said, You know what, doesn't matter what we're wearing, we're still looking in the mirror going, I'm not good enough. I'm ugly, I hate myself. And I started realising that the tools I was learning, I was able to use all my clients and it shifted, when I had my second son, and we had no money. It was the worst time I talked about it in the book, the worst time to start a new business. And I said, I'm not doing it as a side hustle, I'm gonna go full with this and not go back to my corporate job. And my husband almost died. And then I did it. I was like, I'm doing this. And then we started the queen of confidence business in June 2018. And here we are doing this work with women now. That's a short version. Just kidding.
Meaghan Smith 06:42
Holy moly. First of all, I'm just like, wow, Erika, don't hold back. Thank you. I'm kind of like, I feel like I've been on a roller coaster of emotion, like the last few minutes, like tearing up and then just come and I yeah, that's what I love about you so much. You just say it like it is very real. And I find that so ah, just fucking refreshing, you know, like just being able to instantly Connect. And for those of you who are listening, Erika and I literally met 10 minutes ago.
Meaghan Smith 07:28
This is the real deal with Erika sharing and just being so open and vulnerable. I love that so much. So, Erika, can you talk about, like, What does confidence mean? What's your definition of confidence? What does that mean?
Erika Cramer 07:45
Really, like there's so many definitions. And I love the original one that I had found. And I kind of moved it into another version. But the original one is like having a belief in oneself. Just having a belief that you can do something like we all It reminds me of like Tony Robbins unlimited potential, you know, we all have unlimited potential. And if we believe that we do, then we'll try to figure out how to crack into that. So I love that. It's like a belief in oneself and one's abilities. And then when I look at confidence, my definition really is your ability to take action while you're shiting yourself. Like you do something while you're scared as hell like to me confidence is like, not this beautiful thing that we put on a pedestal because I really believe it's been the I don't know, I feel like when I growing up, I was like, if you are more confident, just be more confident, like this gold star that we should all we just need to be more confident and all problems go away. And I'm like, No way confidence is full on it feels so uncomfortable. And it's, it feels to me, like when you're doing something and you're trying to stand in or create or practice confidence. You're shitting yourself and you're scared and you're nervous. And there's butterflies in your tummy having a dance party. That's what confidence is to me. I'm like, cool, keep going, you know? Yeah,
Meaghan Smith 08:59
yeah, absolutely. I feel like I relate to that in my life with what I, when I'm going for things, it doesn't feel good. It feels terrible. It's scary. But there's a confidence, as well as a byproduct of that. And I'm so curious, I want to ask you about this, because when i when i read your book, I just was nodding all the way through like yes, yes, yes. And but you use a slightly different vernacular than I do. Like you have a different voice, right? The way that you describe things. And in my work, what I've learned from my coach is a concept about confidence. And I'm so curious, I want to tell you about it. And I want to ask your your thoughts about it. So we learn this concept that self confidence and confidence are actually two separate things. And before that This episode comes out, I've done a recording on this. So I talk about the difference between these two things. And basically, the way that I teach it is that confidence is something that is based on our past, like what we can already do. Like, for example, we're confident driving the car, because we've done it a bazillion times, and we know that we can do it. It's a behaviour that we've practised over and over again, so we feel confident in our ability to do it, right. But when we go to do something new, there's no evidence in our past for the fact that we can do it. And so we think that we can't do it, or we're not capable, because we're looking in the wrong direction, right, we're looking to what we've already done in the past. But then self confidence, and this is what I relate to, when you're talking about confidence is like this ability to have your own back, like, know that you are willing to feel any emotion and that you're all in on yourself. Because if you fall flat on your face, which for sure you will, if you're going for bigger and better things in your life, right? You're not going to beat the crap out of yourself. When that happens. You're going to have your own back and be the person who is like, yeah, failure happens. I mean, I know you don't use that word failure, but it's like, okay, so learning experiences happen. How do I treat myself when that happens? And then also the Yeah, just that knowing that nobody can take self confidence away from you, because self confidence is internal. It comes from within. Whereas, like, arrogance, for instance, right, I'm just adding something else in the mix that's like an external, it's like when you've got to be the best person in the room, or you've got to be better than somebody else. Right? That's where that like, when you see people who are like, Oh, I'm so good, whatever. But actually, then if there's somebody in the room who's better than them, then they come crashing down, right? But self confidence, there's no competition. It's like, it's all internal. It's like, I'm just showing up being who I'm being. And it doesn't matter what anybody else is doing. Because I'm going for what, what I'm going for? I'm really curious, like, what what are your thoughts on that? What's your take on? on that?
Erika Cramer 12:33
I think, I think the book it for me and how I speak about it is definitely about how we as me, like you, I the woman reading it, is defining herself because it's about her. And when I when I think about that definition, and it is interesting, but I guess the self is still involved, the I is still there. So I'm not confident in driving. I'm saying I so hold on. So do I have confidence in myself, that I can learn or that I'm open to trying and failing and going again, so I don't really look at confidence as like, confidence is competence. Like that whole quote, I don't really associate that at all with it. Because I look at confidence as an emotion, it is an emotion. Happiness is an emotion, sadness is an emotion. And so we know that, depending on what we're thinking will depend on how we're feeling. So what do I need to be thinking to feel confident? I've never done a TED talk, and I talk about it in the book, you know, never done a TED talk. Do I believe I can do it? Yeah. Will I be fucking shitting myself on that damn stage? Trying to memorise 18 minutes of talk? Yes, 1,000,000% I've never jumped out of an aeroplane. You know, I've never driven a tractor. But if I have a desire, if you listening, have a desire to do something, even if you've never done it, forget about competence. You can be confident in yourself, that your self feels the ability that you want to try it, you might mess up. But will you continue to keep going and trying and practising. So I see confidence, you know, as you know, I see confidence as a practice. So I still believe that the self confidence and confidence is the same thing when you're speaking about an individual human. Because you are the human, you are the self in the confident thing. You know what I mean? So, yeah, I can't I don't make them separate. Because if it has to do with me, I always will believe that I'm going to do the best that I can. And I trust that even if I sucked ass at doing it, it was good because it taught me something. And therefore I'm never a failure. Therefore I am amazing. Therefore it makes me better. Like I can't lack anything. There's no lack. If I don't do well, or if I fail. So yeah, I see it like that. I don't know if that answers. Yeah. No, I feel like they're together.
Meaghan Smith 14:42
Yeah, and I love that what you said I haven't actually heard that before. Confidence isn't competence. I love that.
Erika Cramer 14:50
Yeah, I just get set a lot like you know when you're competent in your comments like no like that's that's called a skill like you learn something. confidence to me is not as Skill confidence to me is, it's an emotion you know you are. And you get to decide if you walk in a room and you don't know anyone, and you're an introvert, supposedly, because that's how you define yourself. And if that helps you great, but if it doesn't, my invitation is stop defining yourself like that. And you go cool. I've never met these people. Well, who do I need to become right now? What do I what kind of outcome do I want? Alright, I'm a smile and see what happens. And either way, it was amazing. Either way, you won, you know, whether no one talked to you or you made 10,000 friends. Like, it's like, we get to take the responsibility when it comes to what we want to create in regards to feeling good enough or feeling confident or feeling that desire to did we do well? Yeah, that was awesome. Like, we get to be the decision makers for that not society, you know?
Meaghan Smith 15:48
Yeah. And I like what you said there about, it's not a skill. It's an emotion, which Yeah, I absolutely agree with, but making that making that distinction, that it's like you can be good at something. And still not feel confident.
Erika Cramer 16:06
100% 100% there are speakers that are like I'm a confident speaker, we were just talking before we started recording about clubhouse, you know, and literally, I my first time getting onto a virtual stage in clubhouse, I'm putting my hand up. My heart was I was like, Oh my god, am I having like a panic attack, like, my heart was pumping, like anxiety. And I'm not someone who lacks confidence speaking, but it's like, oh, this is brand new. I've never done this, I haven't been on this platform. And then it depends on who's in the room, if you're in a room with Amy Porterfield and Louis Howe maybe the heart starts beating and before it wasn't. So it's like, it's like the up levelling of the self. And you get to decide what that means. If you care about it, you're going to be scared. You know, if you care about it, you're going to give a shit. And it's gonna make you feel like, what if it doesn't go well, and it's like, cool, but don't feed that, that can sit there and you can still move while it's there.
Meaghan Smith 16:58
Yeah, and that knowing that it's okay to feel like that. Like, it's okay. If those feelings come up when you feel nervous and your heart's pumping. And, but just keep going. Keep moving forward. Yeah, I love that. It's like not resisting it. It's moving through it. Yeah, yeah. So Erika, give us the rundown because you talk about the five C's. So there's a bill, I'm not going to say where they are, I'm going to let you tell. You tell. Tell us what is it? So what's the process? How do we tap into this confidence and develop it?
Erika Cramer 17:35
So I think I think to introduce the five C's and what I say in the book, and I say to everyone, it's not some super cool, you know, complicated process that that is so unique, it's really not I just sat down and looked at, you know, the confident people in the world, people that continuously show up, what is it that they're doing, I've studied confidence with my clients for the past eight years, you know, I've been working on this. And I'm like, you know, what there is there are certain things that confident people do that makes them look and appear like these amazing, you know, confident, incredible people that no one understands how they do it. And this is what they do. And so when I talk about the five C's, it goes into the practice of confidence. So like yoga, if you if you do yoga, or if you do meditation, there's nowhere to arrive at meditation, even yoga, there's no arriving at I did it. I did the downward dog. It's like, no, now you need to stay and breathe and be with the mat and be on the floor and be with your body yoga, meditation, you don't go, I meditated and therefore now I am meditated forever. No, someone cut you off, guess what? There goes your emotional meditation, you have to go back to it. So prep confidence, to me is a practice that we got to commit to, you know, moment to moment, sometimes second to second. And so I looked at the five C's as this is how you can get into the practice of confidence. So see, number one is choice. C. Number two is courage. Number three is create number four is consider and number five is continue. And it just so happened that it was C's, when we started thinking about it, it really wasn't going to be called the five C's. But choice is all about we all have choices in our lives, we all can decide to choose. And sometimes we make decisions to choose simple things like focusing on something that's not going to help us instead of focusing on the big choice, like you need to quit your job because you hate it. Not what am I gonna eat for dinner? We get to choose, you know, the decisions that we're making in our lives. And so my invitation in the five C's is if you want to create confidence, and if you want to practice confidence, what's one decision one choice that you know, you need to make that you've been avoiding? You know what it is, we all have our own things. I need to buy that thing I need to break up with that person really want to quit my job, whatever it is, I want to lose the way I'm sick of eating this way. What's that one thing that you keep avoiding and it can be huge. It can be a big dream. Let yourself write it. Number two is courage. And my definition of courage is almost the same definition as confidence. It's like you don't get courageous. Until you, like you don't get courage to be courageous. You have to be walking in the darkness. You know, walking in the in the eyes, I used that example the fog, because it feels like oh my god, I want to see what's happening. I want to be a control freak and understand how it's going to happen and when and where and give me the blueprint. I want the whole map. It's like there's no GPS, you're gonna bust your ass on a rock maybe? Or maybe not. But are you willing to move through the fearful feeling anyway? Because that's the only way through we have to move. So courage to me is about being scared having skid marks in your undies. Drip, you know, pee dripping down your leg? And can you move anyway, because trust me, the people that you think are amazing, and oh my god, they're so amazing and courageous. They're scared as hell. They're scared as hell all the time. But they're going to move anyway. And then number three is create. And it could have been called action. But we didn't call it action. Because I feel like we're in the hustlers world where people just take action, take action, take action. And you can take a bunch of unaligned action, and it gets you nowhere and you're burnt out and exhausted. Or you could go What's the one tiny, small thing that is in alignment with that big choice, that big decision that I want to make? You want to quit your job? Great, can you start looking for work? That's a small thing that you can do right now, to get that moving. You don't have to take 10,000 steps, you don't have to do this big action. And I think that's where we trip ourselves up. So number one is your choice. What is the scary thing or the big thing you really want to do? Are you scared, awesome, keep going. That's courage. Number three is what's a small step, you want to run an event? Have you found the venue, choose the date, little steps, and these little steps may seem insignificant. But this is where that snowball effect happens, you got to take one tiny bite of the elephant if you're going to eat it, you know. So that's that number three is create. And it's not action on purpose, because I really feel like we're doing too much. And we're achieving nothing. And we're going to be burned out. So take a small aligned action number four is consider and that's all about really evaluating how that action went. So what happened? Was it a good result? Was it a shit result? Did you fail? If you like the word fail us fail? For me, I love words. And when I say fail, then therefore I'm a failure. And when I think I'm a failure, you know, our ego goes fail equals failure, who's the one who failed me. So I'm the failure. And when I believe I'm a failure, I don't want to get back up. I want to stay on the floor crying about the cut on my leg. I want to ask for band aids. I don't want to be like, you know what, fuck it, I fell down. Let me get back up. I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm a failure, I'm never gonna walk again. There comes the stories. Your subconscious brings up all the past evidence and boom, now you're a failure sitting on the floor, comparing yourself to other people. So I just say, Oh, I learned that that guy in Australia that I met from Las Vegas was not a good guy. Thanks so much. You know, I learned a lesson. And I needed him. And I needed all of the bad things, air quotes, bad things that happened to me so that I could be who I am today. So you evaluate how did you go? Was it awesome? Great. Was it shit? Great? What did you learn? Then the next one is continue. And that's really all about start again. What's the next choice? What do you got to do now? Okay, cool. So when women get lost, because I serve women, and they're like, I don't know what to do, I just don't. Okay, cool. Stop. What's one thing that you need to do right now? What that you haven't done. And then like, I really need to whatever. And that's the choice where they might be like, I made that choice. I just haven't taken action. Fantastic. Tell me one tiny thing 1% that you could do that's going to make that move? And they're like, Oh, I could do this. And I'm like, awesome. You know, so number two, which is courage. And number five, which is continue, almost become insignificant, and it kind of pushes you on either end to keep going in the loop. And it's a loop. It's a practice. And if you ever get stuck, you go, where am I? What do I need to do next, I know what needs to happen. I haven't taken action, or I haven't made a choice, or I haven't evaluated and learn my lesson. And if we don't learn the lesson, Wayne Dyer says, You will take algebra again, if you fail algebra, you will take that shit again and again and again and again. So you might as well learn all the lessons that you need to learn, or else you're going to have to repeat the same mistakes. So that's the practice.
Meaghan Smith 24:00
Yes. And what was it that you said that I wanted to ask you about are the evaluation piece? I think that is so crucial. Because Don't you think sometimes it like one if we don't evaluate, we don't actually have any data to work with. And then two, it's like, when we actually do the evaluation, it's not a black or white. It's not like this is something this is a situation that didn't work, or this is a situation that did work. It's like, these elements worked really well, these elements is something that I could change or do differently in the future. Yeah,
Erika Cramer 24:40
yeah. 100% I think, yeah, and I'm not saying be clinical about it. I mean, there's, there's ways to do it if you're a journaler. Or if you're someone who likes to send themselves audio, I kind of speak to myself on audio sometimes just to get it out of my head. And so I'll be like, Well, that was good, but I saw where I could have done better or next time, this is the thing I want to do and it's not about criticising ourselves because we can also be really critical. It's about going, I want to try that thing. And that didn't work. That was one way of many, okay? Keep that big decision, make a different action, that action didn't work. So try something else. And so it's like, oh, it's just as simple as trying something else. And going again, and getting back up and going again, none of us are sitting on our asses, wishing we are moving. You know, there's things that happen, but we're continuously moving, and then that becomes a practice. And it's not like I meditated, and it didn't work. And now I stopped. It's like, No, I'm going to show up to that damn mat, I'm going to meditate, I'm going to stand in downward dog, I'm going to practice confidence, and it's going to work for me, and I'm gonna get really good at it. And then I'm going to have a new thing. And I'm going to have to do it all over again. And that's called growth. That's called evolution. Like we're innovating ourselves.
Meaghan Smith 25:45
Yeah. And if you're not feeling those shitty feelings, you're not growing and evolving, in my opinion, because I if you to do new things, it doesn't feel good if you were doing the same thing all the time. It's like, yes, we're safe. But I mean, the irony is, that doesn't feel good, either. Because we're dissatisfied. And yeah, so one thing that I I really just made me smile in the book, Erika, is you really kind of what's the word I'm looking for? It's like, you don't hold back, you're very loving, you're very compassionate. But you're also like, cut the crap. And so yeah, and so there's like, an overarching theme, that things don't happen to us. Right? We create it, like the good and the bad. And you You talk a lot about sort of, like, people who feel like life is happening to them, like they're the victim of their life, like what is some words of wisdom that you would have for them to, to cut that cycle to get out of that frame of mind, like feeling like they're out of control, and that these things are happening to them in their life, like with you like, husband dying? And you know, it's just, it's like, this stuff's happening to me, like I'm a victim. And but you have choice there to not be a victim. But how, how did how does someone tap into that?
Erika Cramer 27:30
I think that initially, you have to be a victim, you know, you have to sit in it, you have to sit in the ship and suffer as long as you're willing to suffer. You have to suffer as long as you're willing to suffer. And only individuals know how long that is for them. For me, I came to Australia moved to Sydney, then moved to Melbourne for a guy. And I was like, Damn, you're a loser. That was enough for me to go shit, I am a loser. And this this, the, the person involved in all of these situations is me. So 50 people tell me I'm a bitch, I should maybe listen to people who cares. But if 50 people is the common denominator is us. So I guess only individually Can we look at? Where are we seeing the same things happening, the same patterns occurring, the same shifts going on for you. And at the end of the day, the common denominator is you. So if you decide that it's other people's faults, you're never going to be able to change other people, you're never going to be able to do that. You know, we spend our whole lives trying to change the opinion of what other people think of us, only to then become people pleasers become work in jobs. We hate married people, we don't want to marry believe religions. We don't want to believe by houses that we don't care, send our kids to schools that don't fucking matter. Our kids don't care if we send them to a private school because you couldn't go that's just for you. That's your dad's never going to be proud of you if you buy a house, who gives a fuck? Right? So that's what I'm saying. It's like you can continuously live outward and going, it's because of them that I don't have what I want. Or you can look at people like Tony Robbins, Oprah Winfrey, you know, a Nick, I don't know his last name with a J, he's got no arms and no legs, you know, these people that literally should be on the streets, homeless, you know, pregnant, drug addicted, you know, they should just not be where they are. And they're making millions of dollars impacting the world. And they've had either the same or worse outcomes that you've had. So if other people can do this, and there's evidence that people have lived through some of the most traumatic stuff, because they decided to go Where can I take responsibility here? And how do I change my future now, then all of us can do this. But I think that we have to sit in the shit until we're ready. We need to sit in the pit and blame the world. And then one day we wake up and go, I'm done. I'm miserable. And the minute that we decide that is the minute that everything changes, not in six years, but that minute because you will then start taking control of your life and everything changes and trust me because I've seen it I should not be making money in my business and changing the world and doing what I'm doing. No degree in college, no intelligence. I was so bad at algebra and math, no money, bad money, beliefs, all of it. And I'm killing it financially, and I'm making an impact. So how, you know, it's only because I decided that I want to create this for myself. So we all have that opportunity. And that's why I give loving bitch slaps because I don't I don't feel bad for anybody, I feel bad for nobody. I don't care what your past is, I don't feel bad. You're still breathing, cool. 155,000 people die every day. If you're alive, you fucking win. So you have no problem to actually shift your life, whether you're homeless, or you're living in an expensive fancy, whatever life you live, like, we all have an opportunity. Yes, it's different opportunities. But we can make a change if we decide we want to.
Meaghan Smith 30:45
Yeah, and the the piece I got from that, Erika, is that we can't control other people, but we can control ourselves. And yeah, I think that is poison. You know, when we live our life from that place, where it's people pleasing, trying to do things, but it's at the expense of ourselves.
Erika Cramer 31:10
Yeah, or trying to our family proud or trying to make our children do things or, like that's for you. That's all for us. So I think what my advice would be, every human in the world should develop themselves, they should upgrade their brain, they should work on that old software that we all got given, and really start rewiring, what we believe what we want to have, who we want to become, who do we listen to? And question everything, even what I say I tell my clients question what I say, don't just believe what I say, because I'm your coach, like, question everything and get open to going What if that wasn't true? And what if there was another way to do that? And so if we become this way, then we can start to grow and change our mindset around everything, and then we can create what we want.
Meaghan Smith 31:54
Yeah, but that's where the courage comes in. Because as humans, we, we natural, like we've evolved to be social people. You know, like, in the past, we literally would have died if people didn't like it. So we got ousted from the group that could mean death, you know?
Erika Cramer 32:12
Yeah. Yes. I love that. Can we talk about that? Because Yeah, I hear so many. So many leadership specialists get up on stage and go, you know, this is why you care, because we have this 200 million year old brain. And when we were in the prehistoric times, you would get kicked out of the tribe and blah, blah, blah, and people go, so you should care what people think. And you'll always care what people think. And then they make it this thing. And then I'm like, okay, but what happens to freewill and awareness. So now, you've told a full audience that the only reason why they follow the gang is because they are pre historically determined, like their brain is determined to do that. And once you tell that audience and that audience goes homes and researches so anybody listening, you go research, and you understand that. Now, what do you want to do? That doesn't that's not real to me. Because I know that that's how I was made. So now I changed it. So I went off, and I love Dr. Joe dispenza, done heaps of his work, and I went and changed my brain. So now that thing that you just said on stage doesn't, that doesn't seem real in my life. So I don't believe that I understand. That's how we were built. But I'm like, I can change that just by you telling me I get the awareness, and I get to change it. So I feel like we still use that like, not you. But you know, so many speakers talk about that. And then it seems like Doomsday, oh, well, it's just our brain, we have to get used to it just, it's like no, like now that I have that information, I can change something. And I refuse to believe that I have to. I'm not there's no Sabre toothed tigers. I'm not in a tribe. I'm fully clothed. You know what I mean? Like, there's no worry right now, besides getting embarrassed. And if that's what I'm willing to do is just get embarrassed by people that probably aren't my people anyway, I'm cool with it, you know,
Meaghan Smith 33:52
100%. But the people talking about that. What I like about that, though, is that it's such a relief. It's like, Oh, yeah, that's why I'm always trying to fit in, right. But then also, it's on the other side of that, when you have that understanding exactly what you just said, yes, there is no Tiger that's going to eat me. If I go out and create something that other people aren't doing. Like your clients, for example. They don't have to be like Erica Kramer, they can be like, Sarah Smith, so whatever, right. And the other piece of that is also if you get ousted by the group in today's society, again, you're not going to die. Hey, there's Coles and Woolworths down the road, you can just go to the fucking shop and buy food, right?
Erika Cramer 34:46
Your crew girl, you know, like it's they're not your crew.
Meaghan Smith 34:50
Yeah, but truly, I think that this is important information to find out because if you don't know that you Walk around thinking, like there's something wrong with me because I'm different from other people or I want to be different or you know, I'm not like that person and she's Erika has got it all worked out. So obviously I'm supposed to be like Erica, you know, and wear big earrings and amazing Cheetah hats, but you know, then but it's
Erika Cramer 35:20
I am the Sabre toothed tiger. Okay.
Erika Cramer 35:26
Yeah, it's good. It's definitely we need to know it. And then we need to decide what we're going to do. And I think I just hear speakers tell people, and then they believe that's it. It's like, no, this isn't the speaker will believe that's what it is. That's, that's a matter of fact. And it's like, No, we need to be able to take even my book, it's information that you get to take, and hopefully use it. And, and, and keep parts that are good for you. And the parts you don't like, you don't have to use it, you know, but using it so that it shifts and evolves you so that you get to change, you know, because you want to not because you should there's nothing wrong with any single one of us. We are how we are and we're not broken or damaged. But if we want to shift and change and get better results, there is a way to do things differently so that we can get something we haven't had before, you know?
Meaghan Smith 36:09
Yes, I absolutely know and understand it on a personal level like my coach. I adore her. And I think that she's wonderful, but I can't be her. I it's just not it's I'm not her. I'm Meaghan Jean Smith, right? And what I offer like, the more me I am, I realise like the more of a gift that that is to people because I'm not like anybody else, right? And people want that from me, because because I'm not like anybody else. I'm like me, but I think that's a journey that you've You know, you're very far down the road on that self discovery of like, Who am I like, what, who? What, how do I want to show up in the world? What's my message, all of that stuff, and you have to just do it, you have to take the steps, you have to walk walk down the path. That's how you figure that shit out. But talking of that sort of this is a kind of segue. So how do you? How do you present this information to your children? Like how do you show up for your kids about being confident? Do you teach them specifically? Or do you just model who like who your awesomeness who you are? Or? Let's talk about that?
Erika Cramer 37:30
Yeah, I definitely model it. I think that's the first step is modelling and depending how old they are, our kids are three and five. So they definitely see us, you know, they they see everything we do. And I think that one of the biggest things and I get a lot of mothers asking me, you know, I want my daughter to be more confident, you know, what do I do, I'm like, you'd be more confident. And you'd be the one her to learn. Like, don't send her to courses, you know, you can but at the end of the day, the person she trust and her inner circle, and her her circle of trust is at home with the parents or with you. And so how we act and how we treat them is everything. And I used to, to be honest, I grew up in a home where I was physically abused, you know, and it wasn't like, when my mom would be sick, it would be bad. And that's, you know, really bad. But when it was just not a sick mom, and she just got angry, I will get a slap on the bum. And I think a lot of us got slaps on the bums from our parents. And it wasn't this illegal, crazy bad thing. And so I grew up with that, like, you don't be disrespectful, you're going to have to like if you do something bad, you have to have a consequence. And my husband had had a father who was really like strong spoken and he was scared. So when I yell at my kids in the past, like Ray or IRA, my husband be like honey, like trying to protect his son from his dad as if it was me. And he would see himself as his son. Does that make sense? We talked about this, and it was an amazing conversation. So talk to your partners if you have a partner, and you have children, because each of you bring your own stuff into the couple, you know, so I didn't realise that I was doing what my mom did to me. And I was just yelling at my kid and rah rah. And that doesn't give our kids confidence. Um, recently I heard a story about the the people that live where are they? Are they in Nepal? They like to snow igloo people, I don't know who they are. I'm so sorry if I'm offending anybody, but I don't know the name of them. But that culture. And they say that when kids do something bad, they don't yell. Because they think that's childish. So when a child does something bad, they speak to the child, they don't yell, because that's being a child. And I thought, wow, imagine if our culture took that on. You know, even me, I've raised my voice in my kid. So I try to talk to them like they're grownups. And when they do something really scary or really full on, I don't like he my husband and my son loves jumping off the stairs onto the couch, and it's dangerous, but he's really good at acrobatics. We have a gym, he grew up in the gym, so I don't want to stifle him. So I'm like, okay, Raven, that was pretty awesome. But it was dangerous. So that was really cool. But you know, so we try to talk to them and it childcare because they're both in childcare. The teachers say things to them, and I interrupt them Like, hey, my son can't make you sad that you're making yourself sad. We don't say that to my kids. I say that to my teachers, because I don't fuck around with that. My dad, like Raven, you didn't make her sad. She's choosing to be sad. And the behaviour you did was not cool, but and then they just look at me like, I'm like, y'all, I'm a life coach. And they're like, Oh, yeah, that's cool. So they all know they have my book, they follow me on Instagram, they know I'm a life coach, probably listening to this a school. I don't mess around, you know, like, other kids try to do what my son does like gymnastics, and they get hurt and say, well, Raven, you can't do that. Because then they get hurt. And I'm like, No, my love. That's up to the kid. You know, those kids need to not do it if he can do it. So we try to teach them from, I guess, actually, what they're doing actively, like on the spot coaching what they're doing. And then they see what we do. They come to our live events. He goes to me, how do you get people on your podcast, he listens to my husband's podcast on the way to school, they love it, you know, I swear in front of my kids, but they don't I say you don't get to swear until you're 18. But I'm going to swear because I'm a grown up and they're like, okay, so you know, I swear, and I'm like, I don't feel bad for it, because I let him know. So we just talk a lot. We have family meetings, my husband's a coach as well for men. So he's just he cries, my husband cries, and he shows us the kids emotions. I think we need to become who it is. We want our kids to be we need to be in you know, like, that's, I guess my Yeah.
Meaghan Smith 41:17
I love that. You said that to the preschool teachers so much. Can you hear that shit all the time. They hurt my feelings. You know, you can't do that because you're hurting their feelings. And it's like, and don't get me wrong listener. It's not like you should walk around being an asshole to everyone because it's their problem, like how they feel. But what other people do is you decide how you're going to react and respond to that if you want to be hurt by that. Yeah, yes.
Erika Cramer 41:49
Yeah. And that takes time. Like if you're listening Yeah, like how the hell do I react because I was a spicy, I was spicy as hell my husband's spicy now, and I'm not very spicy. You know, I still have my spice, but I don't like to sprinkle it around. like I used to. We just saying, you know, cayenne pepper all over the place is probably not useful, you know. So I kind of, I kind of started really pissed off and angry. And then I have clients like this, and I love them. Because I am them. I'm like, babe, I can see you I understand. And this is what's happening. You're so angry and pissed off. And you're actually really like, the people that you said are arrogant. Like they are they lack the most confidence, you know, they need the most love. Like, that's a call to love, like a call for love, you know, so I talked to them. And it's like, you're a gummy bear inside. And you're just putting on this facade, because you've been hurt. And it's like, oh my gosh. And then I think when we when we treat our kids like this, like I'm not speaking to anyone, like the pot, calling the kettle black or whatever, forever. I yelled at my son, I slapped my son on the bum when he was little. So I don't do it anymore. But I think that one of the biggest things we're teaching them is when we yell at them, that the person that loves them the most is talking is yelling at them. So then that's when they go into the world. And they meet partners that yell at them and treat them like shit. And then they find these narcissist partners. And it's like, well, I grew up in a home where the people who loved me the most the people I entrust the most physically hit me and yelled at me and said, Wow, like, it's insane. So yeah, I think we need to model and also speak to our kids.
Meaghan Smith 43:17
Yes. Whoa, okay. Oh, my gosh, we've covered so much ground, but I we can't leave this podcast without talking about money. Erika, do you think there is a connection between confidence and money?
Erika Cramer 43:32
Oh, faster? I'm gonna say yes. Just 100%? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Meaghan Smith 43:39
Okay, why? Why?
Erika Cramer 43:43
There's many layers, but I would say, let's just say, taking money from someone, someone paying you for your worth, and undercharging or they they're late, and they haven't paid your bill? How do you address that? And if there's any like, oh, about this, then that means that there's something going on with your confidence in creating abundance, your confidence in speaking up your confidence in attracting money, your confidence in conflict, you know, we have to be able to discuss difficult conversations, things that are hard without being assholes. We need to be able to do this. So I fully believe that confidence and many things are wrapped into our ability to create money to have not only make it but keep it we might do we like a like having, you know, can you hold it? That also I feel is a topic of things that people make money and then it's right out like they almost expel it. They don't want to have it because they have all these beliefs around people with money.
Meaghan Smith 44:47
Yeah, well, but when you first started out, so let's talk about this. Is it different now from when you first started in business, but then also, part two of this question is, I mean, you just dived all in, and started a business. You know, when you didn't have any You said you're in like Dire Straits financially, and then you left your job to start a business. I mean, that takes confidence. Holy Heck, but I mean, so where like, have you have you grown your confidence and grown the income or let's let's paste this apart a little bit, tear it tear it out. Yeah.
Erika Cramer 45:25
So one of the biggest things was when we were first when I first met my husband, and we were seven years ago, no, it was not it was nine years ago, I met my husband like, the year after I came to Australia. We joined a business group, I had no business, okay, like, I worked at hair house warehouse, it was working at a hair company. And I went to this business group, and it was like a bit of a cult kind of thing. And I loved it. You know, I just loved being in the community and learning about business, I had no fucking idea what I was doing. I didn't have a business, there's no value proposition. But I would get up and pretend and do it. My husband had a gym. So I was in there for the community. But I didn't realise that subconsciously, I was taking everything in. Everything in, I ended up launching a styling business. That's where because I would dress nice and pretty kids, it looked amazing. I would dress nice to people like us stylists, and I'm like, No, but maybe I should be maybe that could be my business, you know. So that created the side hustle, business of styling. And so that kind of was where it started. So I was confident that I looked nice, and I could help women look nice. And in America, I was already a hairdresser. So I already had the external confidence on the image physical form down pat, I was confident in that. So I didn't know what I was doing in business. And then when I was doing my styling, I ended up loving it so much that I was doing one on ones. And then I'm like, oh, a lot of women have this issue. Let's it let's get them all together. So my community foster home brain was like, we need to get groups. And so that made one too many instantly. So selling tickets to a live event. And that just happened. And then selling my one on one styling at the end of the event. I had taken that from the group of it. So we had invested in ourselves lots around business, but I wasn't practising it. So then when I had my second son, and I was working now at L'Oreal, I had been doing these weekend workshops, they're selling out, Meaghan, like they were selling out was going off. And I'm like, is this gonna be like a pipe dream? Like, am I ever gonna do this full time? And then I would be like, I don't want to talk about cotton, because I had already been working on myself. So I was teaching women style, but then they would cry because we would do like personal development NLP exercises in the styling event, right. So I was like, I'm already sprinkling this in. I really feel eight years later, like I want to do this. I think I want to do the external confidence. And I remember I was in the shower, and I had just had my son. I was in the shower, and I ran downstairs because I got this thing that said what is the queen of confidence do? Like she does confidence. She doesn't fucking talk about linen and cotton and horizontal stripes and bananas and pears and that you are an hourglass. And I was like I'm doing this and my husband just was like, Are you insane? And I'm like, babe, I can't work at L'Oreal anymore. We're making 90 k on this contract. I was like, and I was on maternity leave. So no money on maternity leave because I was a contractor. My husband's gym was dead because it was Christmas. So we had no money. We had bought all this stupid furniture. we'd spent all this money on these programmes. So our debt was through the roof. We were trying to refinance our other home that we owned. And we were literally like, trying to buy bakers delight bread, which is for anybody listening. It's like a bread company in Australia. And the bread is $4.50 what makes me like actually get emotional.
Erika Cramer 48:33
We were looking in our car for coins, like fuck do you have these do? What do we do? What do we buy? And obviously you could have just went to Coles and bought the dollar bread. But we weren't even in that mindset. We're like, we want to buy this bread for our kids. And we want to do this. And I was just like, not like, I'm not doing this like this is I'm not living another day like this. Like, we knew too much. By then we had already invested so much money in our self development. We just weren't using what we knew. We weren't using what we knew we had invested a lot of money. And I'm like, Alright, what are we going to do? I said, babe, I need to do this coaching business. I have my event on in February 2018. I'm going to call everyone refund them even though I had no money, refund them and tell them I'm not doing styling anymore. And I'm going to do a confidence event. And he was like, Are you insane? And I'm like trust me babe. I started listening to Gary Vee crushing it. I started a podcast on my phone. I started a YouTube channel, youtube every day started my Instagram, I start showing up as tell telling people what I was doing crying, telling people everything. I just was like, let me take the fucking facade off and show you everything. And that was when community started building like my audience was like, wow, I see myself in you. I'm also a mom. Holy shit. I'm also want to build my business. So I just got to open myself up to who I was out there. So they were a bunch of me's wanting to do what I was doing. And I was a bunch of them. So we were the same. And I built this amazing community. And then I called all the women and they said Oh, are you doing a confidence event? Well, I'm going to need confidence. I'm going to style and I was like, Okay, cool. Well, you want to come to that, then we'll just transfer your ticket. Yep. Cool. The tickets were like $60 By the way, you know, and I'm like, okay, I kept that event. We packed that event out the first time I kept it real because now I'm real as hell. But back then I was not keeping it real. I was keeping it professional. I was not talking about controversial things on Instagram, or sorry, was Facebook back then when I was doing it? And that was the first minute that I was like, I'm done. I'm going to talk about everything. And we booked that event I sold one on one coaching for like, three sessions for $97 that day, that got booked out and from then on, I know girl from then on, it was like one on one booked out I fucking we struggled so much. It was so hard. And to anybody listening. The reason why we we killed it air quotes is because I had to. I didn't have the the option to doubt myself. Like my we needed to pay our bills. We had no money, and I was pushed to the edge. My husband was freaking out because he thought that was bad. I'm like, we have electricity. Like I'm from America. This is not poor. Like we could buy bread at Coles. Like, we were still paying our electricity. We're okay. So I had already been through hard things he hadn't. So according to him as an Australian man, he was like, we ruined this is the worst ever. And I'm like, this is amazing. Like, we still have a bed or cool. So it wasn't because of my kids. I didn't do it for my kids. I don't do shit for my kids. It was because I wanted to build this and I thought you know what, I'm going to do this. So I listen to Gary Vee showed up online, started hustling, ran my events. And because we had to we did. And in that year, we made $160,000, we launched our, our coaching programme The following year, we made 524,000 a second year. And that was just like, I didn't even know how much money we were making. I didn't know that my podcast was number six in Australia. I did it in my car on anchor on the anchor app back then. So I just did it because I had to. And I loved it. And it grew. And it grew and it grew and the realness people loved it. Because no one I don't think there's any podcast that people do in their car with their e tag going off in their hula hoops hitting the you know, Apple headphones, you know, and that shit was it was killing it. And I still do it in my car, you know, with a with a nicer, nicer mic. But it that's what that's what kind of got created the first year. So it was insane. We never looked at our numbers. We didn't know were making money. No staff. I burnt out I was breastfeeding, selling shampoo and conditioner and setting up coaching sessions. Like That was our year. It was insane. And I think a lot of people aren't willing to do that. And we don't have to in Australia. Let's keep it honest. We get money, we get all kinds of shit here. So we don't have to do so then we don't. So I'm like either you get pushed to the edge where you have to, or push yourself to the edge and make it happen because you can make it happen.
Meaghan Smith 52:42
Erika Cramer 52:45
To be continued, just
Meaghan Smith 52:46
kidding. Oh my gosh, I'm I'm sort of on the edge of my seat just listening to everything, EriKa and taking it all in. And yeah, totally. We're so used to being comfortable, because we do have a lot of comfort. And we don't want to feel discomfort. But please tell me that you're not still in that burnout mode now.
Erika Cramer 53:09
No, no 2020. So that year, obviously as a high achiever the second year, so I did that. I did my one on one coaching. And then I'm like we need group. And it wasn't because I tried to maximise my income, which is a great idea to anybody who's doing one on one that will maximise your income and fix your time. For me. I was like, I don't want to talk one on one to a woman about her problems, because she thinks she's the only one. If she just sat in a room with 40 other women she would feel seen heard and validated. And that's power. So I don't do one on one coaching on personal ever. I'm never going to do whatever, I'm not interested. I want us to be in community talking about this shit, right? So I decided to build a sisterhood which is a Melbourne in person programme. And I launched that in November, November 11 2019 2019 2018. And I'm like, no one's gonna join this programme. Like this is ridiculous. So I launched it. It was 997 for a full year, six live events with me for 997 ridiculous, like stupid. All my coaches were like, that's too cheap. I'm like, I don't care. I didn't believe anybody was going to do it. And so I did it. And we went up to a place where there's no internet connection. And on our way up, it's pinging 123 we got like, 25 women join. So now we have no money now. We just made $25,000 in five hours. And I'm like, fuck, oh my god, my husband's like, do you have automation set up to like nothing set up? Ah, so we come back down the hill. And we're like, holy shit, and I just I was sobbing, you know, sobbing like this little Puerto Rican ghetto pitch from Boston who didn't have any money and who didn't have any skills and who didn't have any a parent who looked after her and who had all this struggle is like making money helping people. And it was like, wow, like that was just like, holy shit. Like, I can do this. I don't need to be and no offence but I thought I had to be white or what marry a white Man, or go to Harvard or go to business school like and I was like, I'm done. There's no I'm not gonna be able to do that. I'm not white. I'm Puerto Rican. I'm a ghetto bitch. You know, it sucks for me. I'm not going to make money. Like that was what I believed my whole life. Even up sometimes it still creeps in. Sometimes a little imposter Puerto Rican, ghetto girl still creeps in. And it's like, that just blew my mind. And then from there, we started paying attention. We started going alright, intentional, let's do a retreat. Let's do this. The following year, we launched the digital sisterhood. And that made like, that was like $400,000 on Instagram that we made because I only shared on Instagram, I had no email list. I just built it. I have 7000 now that we did from FEB till now, this year, I just build my email list. So it's showing up to my audience talking to them giving a fuck about them, you know, and swipe up, swipe up, come to this come to that, like, come on. Let's hang out. Yeah, and so 2020 ruined me because of COVID. And I felt like I needed to become an incredible like, Alaska girl with my incredible family. And I was like, let's save the world. People need our help. So I really went I was going already pretty hard. And I cranked it up like times 10 and started doing virtual things and helping people and just serving and then I wrote the book, even in COVID I didn't relax. I'm like, let's write the book. And I burned myself out like badly. And so I got a fatty liver. I gained weight I was I was messed up. So now I'm good. I come on, I'm fine now and this year, my word is ease. So we're gonna make more money than ever. And we're not going to be working hard. I'm trying to make 2 million this year. We did our forecast. Hopefully it works. And I'm not going to do it with hardness. I can't You can't be hustling for three years. So two and a half years in. Now we need to chill. And now we hiring people and making it a little bit more I do less and I get to coach which I love as opposed to doing all the things. But it's Yeah, it's a transition. Definitely.
Meaghan Smith 56:53
Well, we obviously need you and thank goodness that you are just who you are. Because you're perfect how you are like, and obviously everybody resonates with that. And it's just what you'll people need you Yeah,
Erika Cramer 57:10
yeah. Yeah, it does. It comes like I did a business chicks masterclass. And I'll share like, honestly, I was so nervous because I really want to align with them and work with them and love Emma, she's in the book. They're amazing. And I'm like, Oh my god, I'm gonna do a virtual masterclass. I'm going to nail it. It's on how to become more confident. I mean, that's my topic. It's all these tech issues. We already we went a few times and tried it. It was issues on the day. I was so flustered. I people watched it and like you look did amazing. But I was so fucking flustered, that I was even like, I don't think I'm just going to close my laptop and crawl into a hole like I felt so like that stomach like, Oh, I felt gross and bad. And then I went, surrender, like in the middle of talking. I'm like, Okay, we've got issues with the tech, this is not working. And so fuck it. I'm just going to talk to you. I got a pink wall. So we don't need slides. And let's use my example. And so in the five seas, I used the example that we were in. And they said that was the best masterclass we have ever had. We got all this amazing feedback. I got all these women messaging me. But if I'm honest, I felt like absolute shit the whole time. Because I'm like, Man, that was my chance. I put all this pressure on myself. And that's when that Puerto Rican, you're just a stupid Puerto Rican girl who doesn't know shit that came and spoke to my coach. And she's like, Oh, that's the thin layer of the onion girl. I Where was that? I'm like, Where was that? She's like, well, you're in the upper level that just came to give you a little gift. And it's like, I've received you know, like, cool. So I know that that makes me different. I know, I'm a breath of fresh air in Australia. So I was like cardi B of personal development. It's meant to be funny and like out there with my press on nails and my pink wall and my cheetah print. Like, I'm not like everyone else. So it's like, let's embrace that. But I still get those skidmark moments. You know, I still get them.
Meaghan Smith 58:53
Yeah, and thank goodness, you know, like anyone else. Erika, I think that's a beautiful note to end on. Listen, tell us. Where can we find you? Because everyone's gonna want to find you. Tell us all the things?
Erika Cramer 59:04
Yes. Okay. So you can head to Instagram the queen of confidence. I'm always there. If you're on clubhouse, I'm hosting heaps of rooms in there around confidence. And it is Queen confidence on clubhouse. And my website is the queen of confidence, calm. All the things on how to work with me are there and then lastly, my podcast called the confidence Chronicles podcast, which is available everywhere as well.
Meaghan Smith 59:28
Amazing. I will make sure I link to your website and everything on in the show notes so people can find you easily. Erika, thank you so much.
Erika Cramer 59:40
Thank you for having me.
Meaghan Smith 59:41
It's been an emotional journey. I've been up and down I've had tears and everything. So that's it.
Erika Cramer 59:49
Meaghan Smith 59:50
Thank you so much. Okay, if this is the first time you have heard about Erika and her book, what is happening you need to immediately go out and buy her book and join us for book club next week. That is Tuesday, the 23rd of February at 8:30pm. And it's on the money mindful Facebook page. And Erika is going to be joining us live so you can ask her questions directly. So exciting guys. I love it when the author's can be there. So if you're driving and can't remember these details, don't worry. Just go to the money mindful website and all the details for book club and how to get Erika's book are all there and links to her website. And finally, thank you for joining me today. If what you have been learning from the podcast resonates with you and you would like to find out more about working with me and the awesomeness you can create in your life from having a life coach get in touch. I help women get over all their BS and create extraordinary lives. You can book a consultation with me by going to the money mindful website. This is like the modern version of cuppa and a chat online but so much better because you can get so much clarity about you and your life from the call. Okay, until next time, have a beautiful week. Bye Bye.